Andre' Mack: Lessons on Passion, Wine, & Life

Andre'00:00:00

Eyes on the prize because you are the only person that knows where you're going and just focus on that. And sometimes you got to do the things you don't want to do to get to the place that you want to be. And that's what it's always felt like.People thought it was crazy. And next thing, I'm the sommelier at the French Laundry.

Arnold00:00:15

We're going to meet Andre Mack on St. Louis in Tune.Welcome to St. Louis in tune and thank you for joining us for fresh perspectives on issues and events with experts, community leaders, and everyday people who make a difference in shaping our society and world. I'm Arnold Stricker along with co host Mark Langston. Mark, we've got a great show today.

Mark00:00:49

It's a really. A really big shoe.

Arnold00:00:51

A really big shoe. Yes. As Ed Sullivan would say, this is a wonderful conversation I had with a wonderful guy and we're going to get into that.We're glad that you've joined us today, folks. We want to thank our sponsor, Better Rate Mortgage, for their support of the show.You can listen to previous shows@stlintune.com where you can follow us and leave a review. Our thought to ponder today, Drinking good wine with good food in good company is one of life's most civilized pleasures.

Mark00:01:19

I'm with you on that.

Arnold00:01:20

That's right.

Mark00:01:22

Back when I was younger, dads on our block would make their own wine. And I don't see people making their own wine anymore like they used to.

Arnold00:01:31

Those wine kits came out.

Mark00:01:33

They were popular for wine.

Arnold00:01:33

Yes, they were.

Mark00:01:34

Wine kits. And beer, too. Yes, they would make beer, too. But our guest is the connoisseur.

Andre'00:01:40

Is that.

Arnold00:01:41

He is the connoisseur.

Mark00:01:42

We have all these big words today.

Arnold00:01:44

He's the connoisseur of many things. We had our conversation in the lobby of a hotel. So there's background noise and there was this whole group of women who walked by.And I had to cut that out because they stood right in front of us then and had a conversation. But then there's a special surprise that I left in. I left that in just for fun.

Mark00:02:03

Okay.

Arnold00:02:03

Andre Mack is one of the world's most notable sommeliers. He's also a winemaker under the label Mouton Noir, a graphic designer with his own boutique design firm.As if that's not enough, he's an author, wine educator, motivational speaker, and maybe the biggest thing, husband and dad.

Andre'00:02:20

Yes.

Arnold00:02:21

Andre, welcome to St. Louis in Tune.

Andre'00:02:23

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Arnold00:02:24

I'm excited that you took time out of your busy schedule here in St. Louis to talk to us about what you doing, where you've come from and where you're going to be going and why are you here in St. Louis?

Andre'00:02:35

First, I'm here doing some market work. It's been a while since I've been here. It's always a market that I enjoyed going to. But we're here hosting a few dinners. I got some interviews.Yeah, we have just some casual stuff. We had a trade lunch earlier today. Just very casual. Eating barbecue, drinking some wine. I don't know. This is the part that I love about it, right.This is the reason why I got into hospitality. It's the love of the people and being around people and feeding off that energy.

Arnold00:02:57

And let's talk about the hospitality part. Wine enthusiast doesn't go far enough.I guess if people looked up wine in the dictionary, they would find a picture of you holding a glass up with your grape lungs. What was the first drink of wine that you had and what was it and what did it do for you that kind of got you on this journey?

Andre'00:03:16

It's kind of two foot. I don't think it's every one moment. I think for me, I think the first wine I ever had was Gluhein.And that's when I lived in Germany as a young child. And I just remember, wow, my parents would let me have wine. So it's kind of sweet.But I just remember that I think the biggest thing for me was like the aha moment wasn't the first glass of wine I had was like, it was when I first time I ever tasted three wines side by side. I got into wine, was inspired or had the courage to walk into a wine shop for the first time by watching old episodes of Frasier.

Arnold00:03:44

Right.

Andre'00:03:44

So the camaraderie that they had and how they talked about wine and spirits, but mainly wine gave me the courage just in the sense of wow, they seem like they're having a really good time and it's centered around this thing where that part of this thing is part of it. And I was like, well, I don't know if I'm having a good time, but maybe if I had this, maybe I would.And that humor I've always felt as the greatest foil to pretend. And so that gave me the courage to walk into Restore.It wasn't until I did training at a restaurant called the Palm Restaurant, and the first night of wine tasting, they lined up three glasses of wine, which is in any for Most people. What do you mean? Three glasses of wine. That felt like an indulgence. Right. You know what I mean? I was like, next stop is aa. You.

Arnold00:04:24

Right.

Andre'00:04:24

You know what I mean? And it was Riesling, it was Sauvignon Blanc, and it was Chardonnay.And from all the bottles and everything, you know, they're different, but you don't really get the experience in real time. And I don't know, I like in all that, what stood out to most of us, Sauvignon Blanc, but more importantly, was that this was different.And it was a whole underlying world that had no clue. It was fascinating to me.

Arnold00:04:47

Was it like this dam just broke in your head and your heart, and you're like, wow.

Andre'00:04:51

Like, this is amazing. And then it's wrapped around all of these other things that you love. Chemistry, biology, history, and culture and food.And then, like, when you taste it all by side by side, it just clicked. And I was like, there's a job. There's a job that somebody can specialize in this. And that was it. I was like, I want to do this.And it's funny because at that moment, I didn't know a lot about it. Matter of fact, I was probably the lowest guy on the totem pole.And I think five weeks later, the training people came back, and all the traff, like, in that amount of time just skyrocketed. It was like a. They gave a test question, and I challenged a test question. And the trainers. Who are you?Aren't you the guy that spilled wine on somebody on a table? And all my peers in the room, they're like, we believe him.That's how much trust that I had built in those five weeks of training and learning more about wine.Every waking moment, I was studying wine, and I think they could really see it as I started talking, and at some point, they're like, hey, can you go talk to my table about wine? I'll watch the table intersection.

Arnold00:05:55

Wow.

Andre'00:05:56

And so it just moved fast. I was. I don't know, I was just obsessed in a lot of ways. This is just so intriguing. This is so cool. And that was it.And I would want to say 18 months from that day, I was a sommelier at the French Laundry.

Arnold00:06:09

And for those people who don't know.

Andre'00:06:11

What the French Laundry is, French Laundry was a restaurant by Thomas Keller, early 2000s. It was named the best restaurant in.

Arnold00:06:16

The world for several years. Wanted to explain that it wasn't a wash house on the same parents.

Andre'00:06:21

Correct. Or Brasso. Yeah. Which I Think it was at one point.

Arnold00:06:25

Got to that point, though. There's a gap there. In that time frame, you were really working. You were working hard and studying hard and you were.I was reading that you took all the small wineries in the regions of every country and you went from small to large to small.

Andre'00:06:41

I used a dry erase board in my living room.

Arnold00:06:42

So this was like a total immersion.

Andre'00:06:44

Yeah.

Arnold00:06:45

In what was going on.

Andre'00:06:46

Yeah. Literally everywhere. From 10:30 at night, when I got off till 4 in the morning every day. It was something that I was into. And there was drinking.Right. But less of that. When it was just more about study. I need to know this. And it was geography and that was easy for me to kind of understand. And yeah.It's so funny when you look back on it. It was just so intense and just so quick. And I didn't know what great wine was.I called all the top restaurants and this was like most of them didn't have a website. And even if they didn't have their wine with somebody. And so I asked him to email it to me. But then a lot of them didn't know how to do that.Charlie Charters faxed their wine list to me.

Arnold00:07:23

Wow.

Andre'00:07:24

And so I printed them all out. I had them all on the floor and I go section by section. Chablis. Okay. Seems like all of them have this thing called Raveno.Then I go look up Raveno, understand it, then try to find it in San Antonio, Texas. Buy three bottles if they let me one. I taste it and taste it the Savon.And then I took the total price and divided by three to get the bottle cost average. So the guests pay for that wine so we could educate the staff on it. It was just an interesting time.And I was calling places to stage for free and giving up two weeks, one to two weeks to go to work at some of the great restaurants just to see on the. In the wine capacity on the culinary part, the chef, that that's a common thing. But unwind. It wasn't a thing that happened a lot.

Arnold00:08:10

Is it more so now?

Andre'00:08:11

I probably say no.

Arnold00:08:13

Really?

Andre'00:08:14

No. I don't feel like is for me. I just remember, hey, I'm going to be in town for two or three days. Can I come work the floor with you?And it was just that easy. And he showed up. And it was one way I stopped at Charlie Trotters.It was one of those ways to validate a lot of the things that I was doing on my own because there was nobody there to say, sure, you're doing them right or not sure. And then also realizing that some of the ideas were progressive. And when I told them what we did at our restaurant, they're like, wow, really?I'm like, this is one of the greatest wine restaurants in the world. And you're saying something that I do that you're interested. You know, so it was validating in a lot of ways, but also that I'm on the right path.And it was just. I don't do a lot of reflection, and it's just how I'm built. Otherwise, I'd end up on the fetal position on the floor. Because it's just.You just see how it'll all go wrong. And you just go. You don't look back.

Arnold00:09:01

You haven't allowed maybe any kind of thing that disrupted you or an impediment totally wipe you out. You just kept blazing on.

Andre'00:09:10

Correct. Okay. Just go. This is. Okay. This seems to be right.And it's just one of those things where it's like you just kept saying, I got to give up the good to get the great. This could be. This feels great. This feels amazing. This can't be as good as my life gets. And that was the calling card in all of it.

Arnold00:09:26

You said this in TED Talk, and it relates to what you're talking about. Don't do what you're supposed to do. Don't be afraid to do it yourself. Don't dress the part. Don't seek approval and play.

Andre'00:09:35

Correct.

Arnold00:09:36

And that's exactly what you did.

Andre'00:09:37

Correct. Yeah. No. I don't know. It's so funny. You're like, did I say that? And of course I did.Because sometimes when you're busy living it, it's hard to put it into words, but that was it. It's like, I didn't listen to anybody. It's like I knew.I always tell my wife, we saw this thing, and, like, when we both get frustrated about something, I was like, eyes on the prize, chef. Eyes on the prize. Because you are the only person that knows where you're going, and just focus on that.And sometimes you got to do the things you don't want to do to get to the place that you want to be. And that's what it's always felt like. People thought it was crazy. And then on the sommelier at the French Laundry, right? And then it is crazy.And then you're there. And then you're like, okay, this is great. You there, all this hype, and you're talking about this new place in New York.Then you learn the backstory where the chef tried to make it there and felt like he ran with his tail between his legs. And this was his big comeback. And then it's the most anticipated restaurant in New York City history.And I say, andre, you can't sit on the sidelines for this, brother. You gotta go. Yeah. And I asked my boss, I said, can I go? And he said, sure. Then I've never been to New York.I showed up, end up running the program for three years, and then it's that same moment in life. This is great. This is cool. And I can see why somebody would have this job for decades, but this just can't be as good as it gets for me.This is not how I envision the rest of my life every day, coming to this place.

Arnold00:10:54

You hadn't totally immersed yourself in the wine, which got you into being a venter, correct?

Andre'00:10:59

Correct. Now we're at the point is, I wanted to continue to learn about wine and what that. I want to do that outside of the four walls of the restaurant.It was easy for me to adapt the role as a sommelier because I worked in restaurants. I knew food, and I knew how to run a table, that kind of thing. And also, you need a challenge. Sometimes we wait tables. You can do it blindfolded.And so this wine piece added another layer that. That kind of enriched the experience for me.And then you run the program, and then you're there, and then now it's like, I don't create anything, you know, somewhere you're like a curator.So it's just kind of like, all right, but if I could do this thing and continue to learn wine and make something that I could sell, I'd become an entrepreneur. And that was a dream. That was something. I didn't own anything except wine books that. That doubled as a nightstand next to my mattress on the floor.And so you're just like, okay, and then you leave. I don't have a business plan. I don't have any money. And you make it happen.I'm a firm believer in putting it out in the universe and letting the universe co conspire to help you make it happen. Paranoia, the opposite of being paranoid. And so those things, they did, and it's like, I don't. I just did it. You know what I mean?It's like, you could. We could all talk about it, like, how we. You get it in your head and just do it. The thing is, what I would say is, we all know what to do.We all know what to do. It's just that we talk ourselves out of discomfort.

Arnold00:12:20

That's an interesting perspective. Do we get in the way of ourselves?

Andre'00:12:24

Of course we do. All the time. And that's it. Like, we say, we get in. We talk ourselves out of discomfort.Because what's new, what's not known, is a level of discomfort. And are you willing to deal with that? And that's a cliche, right? It's all. There's always going to be discomfort, right?Is it the pain of disappointment or the pain of discipline? Or is it regret or regret or afraid of discipline? Or you just feel like you can't do it? And I just said, all right, I'm gonna do it.Like we say, oh, you know what? I feel uncomfortable. I feel out of shape. I know I need to get into shape.So we know what to do to get to where we want, but we talk ourselves out of that.

Arnold00:13:00

My wife and I were talking about your background growing up as a quote unquote, army brat. And your mom was stationed in a variety of places.My wife made the comment that many times, the kids that she knows who have been in military kids, they. And as frequently as you've turned around, they don't lock into a place, they don't lock into a school, they don't lock into friends.They make friends.

Andre'00:13:26

Correct.

Arnold00:13:27

But they're not locking into them like somebody who lives here, who's grown up here, who's invested in the community or the neighborhood or the area, and they lean on those things. And it's like, you've almost had to. All of that was focused within you, and now it just comes out in the ways that you're allowing it.

Andre'00:13:45

You had to be like, have you moved every two years? And so the idea of you were always a new kid, you always had to make friends.You were the person that walked up to the table at lunch where you felt like you weren't invited. I remember coming home and one time and I told my mom's like, when are we moving again? And we had just moved there.

Arnold00:14:01

Oh, wow.

Andre'00:14:01

And she's, what happened at school? Oh, wow. And so you get to understand that, but also you get that. And I was telling this story the other day.So it was funny because somebody was like, your mom ruined it for all the women that you had to deal with in your life over the years. My mom was like, listen, my birthday's on Christmas. And it was like a. It was as a concept, as a child, it was hard to kind of understand.And my mom said, oh, you're Special. Okay, all right, cool. I said, but all I want is a birthday party. And most. You can't have a birthday because most of your friends are out of town.It's actually Christmas. And she was, no, but that's why you're special. And you're like, no, I don't feel special.But at some point, as I tell my kids, being special sometimes just. It means that there's other sacrifices that you have to make.You don't get to have what other kids have, but ultimately you get to have what they don't have. Yeah. And so I don't know. I've always kind of lived that way, like traveling every two years. I don't know.And it feels like it's prepared me a lot for my life now that I create it. Because when you travel so much, it's always a reason to stay. But it feels so powerful and leafy.

Arnold00:15:04

Interesting.

Andre'00:15:05

You know what I mean? It's like, I gotta go.

Arnold00:15:07

Yeah.

Andre'00:15:07

And like here, I would love to say, somebody's like, hey, here over the weekend we have this rewind festival. And like, that sounds amazing. But the most powerful thing is being disciplined and saying, no, I have to go somewhere to go.

Arnold00:15:17

That's a great word to say, is no.

Andre'00:15:19

Yeah.

Arnold00:15:19

We haven't learned to say that in a beneficial way. We're always wanting to please other people or please.

Andre'00:15:26

Or let them down. No, I can't do it. So I get that.

Arnold00:15:29

How do you develop a pallet and a nose for wine and flavors? How did that happen? Was it just experimenting with the wines like you mentioned?And how does somebody who's maybe an amateur, how would you encourage them or educate them to learn that?

Andre'00:15:42

I think for me, it was so funny because I thought you had to be born with a special palette to do this thing. And I just remember I was like, I don't know if I can do it. And then I just told myself, I'm just going to be book smart as hell. And that.That I focus a lot on that. And it wasn't until later, when I got my first sommelier buying job, that I really kind of stepped into my own palates.And it's through repetition and tasting lots of wine and then tasting with people who have better tasters, you that have a little bit more experience because you know that you're tasting something or you can't quite put your finger on what you. To identify and put it into words. And by tasting with more seasoned tasters, they help you kind of form a vocabulary of your own. And that Was it?I think it was really by tasting every day. What I didn't realize and what I now know, what I didn't know before, is that it is a skill that one can acquire.And then there's gifted tasters like mine with photographic taste wing memories like Rajpar. We all want to be him, but in that, in the matter of fact, some of us have to work at it harder than others.

Arnold00:16:46

He has special taste buds.

Andre'00:16:48

Yeah, I think he had a photographic taste memory. He can taste one thing one time and years later he's like, wow, this is 68 estroso that I tasted eight years ago.And so when you see that, you're like, is there room for me in this whole thing?

Arnold00:17:01

Right.

Andre'00:17:01

And that was it. It was just through tasting constantly, every day. And understanding everybody's palate is different.So understanding where different things hit your palate and understanding that it all comes to experience, which you really can't be rushed. It has to be lots of tasting. And what I tell everybody is taste everything. Now, if you're starting out, taste everything.I used to go to the grocery store and smell everything. And then I bought a little kit that helps you identify smells.And I think that can be really helpful, just applying it, learning how to apply a language or vocabulary that you're not used to, something that's new and foreign. But yeah, to me, it's always tasting wine, evaluating wine, and getting better at it.And the more that you taste something, the more I have experience with it, tastes better.All the young sommelies out there, I tell them, you should have the bartender blind chase to on every single wine by the glass every day, even if it's just one of them. You should be able to blind taste your wines that you poured by the glass and know them like the back of your hand.And it's helpful too, in a way of just building your skill. And I think sometimes people look at it and you look at this big task, this thing, and I want to do this thing.And it's no, it's every day constantly doing something, oh, I'm not going to build this great big wall. I'm going to lay the perfect brick every day I'm gonna do this thing. And that's what I tell people. What do you want out of work?I think everybody's, I want a paycheck and I want to be recognized for the work that I do. But also, I think maybe there's something that's lost in translation because I come from a place where you did the job that you wanted to have.So you acquired those skills and you did that job, but you didn't get paid for that job just to show the employer that you could do that job right. And I think somehow it's changed a little bit in that way. But I always tell people, what do you want out of your job?You should get out of it what you put into it. And I use this example. I was definitely afraid to join the pre shift meeting.Every day, 4:30, whatever it was, 4:20, they would be pre shifting nature. D would talk about who's coming in that night. Chef would go over the menu.And then as a representative of the wine team, I went over the wines and styles of wine that would go well with them food items. And everybody is super knowledgeable. And besides dying, number two is public speaking. Right?And I was so nervous and I just remember going to the chef, I'm nervous and I don't feel comfortable doing it. But I want you to help me. And I said every day that I'm in this building, it make me do the pre shiv. Public speaking is a life skill, right.And, and apply this to my children. They're like, everybody's, oh, my kid is in soccer. And as I said, I'm teaching my kid how to swim. Swimming is a life skill.They can not only save their own life, but somebody else's. Right? And so the. Oh, I just. And this is it.I don't know what I was going to use the public speaking for like any of that, but I just knew that I didn't want to be nervous and I wanted to be better at it. And when you show up places and everybody's. You're not nervous or do you feel comfortable?I was like, of course that was something that I got through work. And in the same way, like flying taste hone your palate. That's like out of work. I don't know. Everybody sits back and it's like, I just need to check.And they're supposed to worship me. And it's. But what do you want to learn at work?What skills, life skills can you pick up that will make you more valuable, but also as a better person?

Arnold00:20:10

Two things I get from that. Number one is you engage in self reflection.

Andre'00:20:14

Correct.

Arnold00:20:14

Rather than reflecting and being in the, the fetal position, you're constantly self reflecting internally. But secondly, you, when you have people that are constantly learning, they never stop learning.Learning is not just because you get done with high school or college or you know, your job really well. It's a constant. And that's the perspective you're coming from.

Andre'00:20:37

Yeah. Life is always. To be a master means to forever be a student. And you have to continue to grow and evolve.And sometimes that's frustrating to me, but I get that. I tell people all the time, my job is not to motivate you. Like, you're here. You wouldn't get. You wouldn't have gotten here if you weren't motivated.My job is to inspire you to what could be, what you could do.

Arnold00:20:59

So you're an inspirational speaker versus motivation.

Andre'00:21:01

Yeah, but all of it. I didn't. It's so funny because I never looked at it that way.But what was really funny was like, those were the things that sometimes I posted that felt that way were just me reminding myself. Me speaking out loud about and reminding myself that, okay, like, this is it. Before, I used to wear rubber bands on my right arm.And my boss, that's one of you. I was stressed because I had told him. He goes, what do you. What is that for? When I can't focus, I snap them.And as a way to snap back into it, be focused, let's do this thing. And then I kind of moved on from that. There's no wasted moment. Continue to evolve and learn.I don't get it for a lot of people, but I don't judge them for not. They don't. No one has to think like me, but it's. That's one life.

Arnold00:21:42

Yeah.

Andre'00:21:42

Okay. And my hair is. My thing is you're already motivated, but my thing is to inspire you what life could be. What. And not that my life is great.It's just more like we're all trying to inspire each other to, like, to live a great life or to live a more fulfilling life and whatever that is for you.

Arnold00:21:59

What do you do as a hobby for free time?

Andre'00:22:02

I do this. It was so funny. Somebody asked me that earlier. I don't know, because it's probably learning. So before it was graphic design. Right.And I did that out of necessity because I couldn't afford a graphic designer. I don't know. I do some interior design. I do photography, video. So those things and those things that can be applied to work. But yeah, that's it.There's not much time. I travel a lot.So it's like really trying to, like, making sure that the time that I get to spend with my children, my family, not that it all has to be special. Oh, let's go on this big trip. It's just like, they have my attention quality. It is like you're There, I'm here. What are we doing?We're putting this puzzle together. We going to do this puzzle? You know what I mean? Because I think that's what they remember.I struggled with that for a little bit where I felt guilty, but also, like, I get to spend more time with my children than most fathers do or parents do in that sense, especially in this industry. Yeah, yeah. And the quality, I think the quality part of that. Right. Where, hey, I don't go on vacation. But we moved to Europe for three months. Right.That was the occasion for them.

Arnold00:23:02

Yeah.

Andre'00:23:03

But not for me. We. I'm working still, like in the same fashion, but we get to share some of those experiences together.As my grandma said, I just want to make them a better place because I was here. Yes. And I don't even know what that means. You know what I mean?

Arnold00:23:16

You're doing it every day.

Andre'00:23:17

Yeah. You're doing it.

Arnold00:23:18

So what's on the agenda for the future? Do you have some plans or can you reveal them?

Andre'00:23:23

Yeah, no, totally. I have a new book coming out called Wine for Good Times. This is my, technically, my third book.

Arnold00:23:30

I love the coloring book.

Andre'00:23:31

Yeah. So I'm counting the coloring book. So Cullingbrook was first Small Time Cooks. And after that was 99 bottles, which was.I think it's a black sheep's guide to Life Changing Wines, which told my wine life story through 99 bottles of liquid. And this one's more of a Wine 101 book. And so I'm excited. It's been a lot of work.And we this illustrator, this photographer, and we worked really hard on it. And I have a couple TV shows I'm working on that we have in production some glassware. Just like, I've been working on a whiskey project, Ryan Sons.And that's been fun.And I don't know just like, what's interesting at this particular point in my life, it's like, what's really great is to be in a position to say yes or no. People just bring you things that in your wildest dreams, that you're like, nah, I can't see myself doing that.And you're like, wait a minute, I'm not real sure. Most people who really know me know I love to bowl.

Arnold00:24:18

Really?

Andre'00:24:19

Yeah. And that's something that I did on a military base.

Arnold00:24:22

You have a handicap?

Andre'00:24:24

No, no. I'm not going to reveal that.I'm good, but like, most people think I'm sharking them, but it's one of those sports, like, the more knee rated you get the better I roll kind of thing. But I did a lot of it like in middle school or high school. They're only military base 89 cent bowling like so I don't know, it's really fun.But then also for a big bowling company to approach me to say hey, we'd love to work for you. Like that's cool. So yeah, like out of the realm of all the things. It's just an interesting time where you just never know.I teamed up with Craig Hill which is a local Brooklyn design company and we made what we like to call the best wine key. And we debuted it maybe about two years ago. And it's the most innovative wine key on the market in the last 23 years.And it's just like that kind of thing where yeah I could have went to Lagio that has a name within that space but I just would have been putting together a colorway. Yeah textures but no actual physical design.And when I teamed up with friends of mine, we had a lot more input in the shape of what it would look like and the features and down to the degree of at a 90 degree angle where the foil cover comes out and how it fits around the bottle. So like all of that and to do something like that has an impact. Something like a wankey that just doesn't.It's pretty much stayed the same for many years in that aspect. And so that's been really fulfilling and fun and we're still cranking those out. That's why we created a saver.So I think for me just still being able to feed my curiosity and excise my creativity and that's been really fun to do all of it.

Arnold00:26:00

You're unleashing it, man.

Andre'00:26:01

It's like the best time ever. And then in that like the world doesn't stop. And so you have this family.My 17 year old is going to college in London and I'm just so excited for him and the way. Go live your life. This is so cool. For me, I moved to New York on sight unseen. I really wanted. I was like, are you really crying over spilled?No, I wish I would have moved there sooner or I would have grown up there. It was like, this is stupid. It's wasted energy. What you should be thinking about is oh, you want to raise your family here.And so I, I did and that's why I spent a lot of time on the plane. The vineyard and the winery is in Oregon, on the other side of the country. Yeah. And but it was because I really wanted to raise them there.And to have that happen, like he was born there when he knows and he's leaving the nest and going to London and like being a young man and that unsureness of himself and telling him to embrace that, I don't know, it just feels so good. And I'm so excited for him. And so it's great. So that's kind of happening. And then you realize, like, he was the first child.So the dynamic and energy of the house will switch. Now number two becomes the main character, so to speak, or running things. And so, I don't know, I'm excited about all of it.

Arnold00:27:09

And that they've taken on some of the characteristics of really feeding that passion that they have to do those.

Andre'00:27:17

I hope so. That was how. That was at least my decision. My wife wanted to homeschool then.And I think for me, I like what I saw with homeschool was like, I wanted my kids to experience their passions at an earlier age. So it wasn't like, if you get all your work done, we'll go swimming. If you're into swimming.If you're into swimming, we get you a tutor, a swim instructor, and you swim every day at 5:30.

Arnold00:27:36

Right.

Andre'00:27:36

If that's what you want. One day you thought you wanted to be an architect. By the end of the day, we got you a book from Amazon on architecture.We hired a retired architect down the street to spend six hours a week with you. That's how I wanted to do it and to feed those things. So they say, no, that's it.I remember one time I was being interviewed and the producer was sitting on my stoop. They were outside watching on the monitor and I'm going off and like, Sam's thing.It's like, I just don't want my kids to know what day of the week it is. And they kind of freaked out and came in and as you cut, they're saying, that seems like that's not who you are. And it's, oh, you're mixing it up.It's not because they have so much money. It's because they're so into the thing that they're doing that they lose track of time.If I didn't have to look at a schedule, I wouldn't know what day of the week it is. Some days I don't. Yeah, everything's on the calendar. One person's responsible. That's my assistant.To me, the greatest freedom is to be lost in a creative work that's inspiring. Right. To lose yourself in your work is. I don't Know that's magic for me and that coloring book.I was walking down the stairs in my house, got to the foot of the stairs, and I was like, oh, it should be Chef coloring book. Didn't even take the step off the step of the last stair to be in the living room. I walked back upstairs in my office and got to work.Four weeks later, I was done.

Arnold00:28:57

There you are.

Andre'00:28:57

And that. To have that time and that freedom to do that. I think my kids have that. My oldest kid is into costume design.And so it's late night, so I'll come home, and he's making bubble tea on the stove downstairs. He's got a sweater and some wool light in the sink in the bathroom upstairs. And he's in a dimly lit room on a sewing machine.And I second I said, you good? He goes, good. I go, great, right?

Arnold00:29:24

In his group.

Andre'00:29:24

And I'm like, yeah. And I know what that means. Sometimes it takes a moment to get in that group. And so I like that. And I.If there's anything I want my children to know or pass on to them is that you can create whatever life that you want to create and do something that you can lose yourself in. Not ignore. Not in the back, but truly something that. That makes you feel alive.I would stay up because I didn't want to go to sleep because I thought I would miss something.

Arnold00:29:49

Oh, my.

Andre'00:29:50

That's how it was. And then I would fall asleep and wake up and ready to go. That was really the driving thing, was like, I don't want to go to sleep.And it's kind of cool. I was talking about a label I designed, Love Drunk, and how the byline used to say, avoid hangover, stay drunk. And the TTB kicked it back.And then I told people, I said, then I made up some Hallmark stuff, right? And it says the name of the one is called Love Drawn. And on the leaf it says, when reality is better than your dreams. And I call it Hallmark.But it is real.

Arnold00:30:21

Yeah.

Andre'00:30:22

And, like, when that happens, you don't want to go to sleep. You can't believe that it's real. You don't want to go to sleep because you think that when you wake up, it. It's over and that's it.And that feeling is all I would ever want them to have. And hopefully they've had that. Maybe more by me leading by example and less about having a physical. A conversation about, like, this is. I don't know.Do the work. Nobody's afraid of the work. Do the work. I don't know. I probably didn't even answer your question.

Arnold00:30:50

You did tell me about that James Bond super villain yacht. Who was the super villain? Which James Bond movie was that?

Andre'00:30:59

Oh, what's his name?

Arnold00:31:01

SW.

Andre'00:31:03

The Le Chiff.

Mark00:31:05

Yeah.

Andre'00:31:05

Is it Le Chiff? Yeah. It got a little scar. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know that James Bond movies were a big part of my life growing up.And it's funny because it changed growing up. It was always Roger Moore, and then later in life it became Sean Connery.And then now I'm fascinated with the Daniel Craigs because for the first time in that whole series, it's consecutive there. It's one movie. It all tells the story in chronological order. And it shows a more vulnerable side, a darker side of James Bond.And I don't know, like, all of it's in there. And it's so funny because I do find myself a lot of times in places that I've seen in the movie.I feel like in the movie I was in Siena and I was like, okay, I just went to the square, and then I went and had dinner at a place, and then they gave me a tour of the cellar. And down there they had a bird's eye view of this race called the Paligo. And I was like, this looks familiar. Yeah.I'm like, that's that James Bond race, right? Yeah. And they're like.

Arnold00:32:05

They're telling you.

Andre'00:32:05

What are you talking about? This racer? I was like, oh, yeah. Right around the corner. So go straight and then take a left, the next left. All right, you're welcome.Last one on the left. And he says, oh, this is super cool. And that's it.So, like, at the super yacht, I'm at this place, and then they have four helicopters on a helipad in the middle of nowhere, north of the Vancouver Islands. Like, I landed on a plane that landed on the water.

Arnold00:32:29

Wow.

Andre'00:32:29

And so I don't know. So that's the interesting part of, like, where life takes you.

Arnold00:32:33

Yeah.

Andre'00:32:33

And it's really fun in a lot of ways. Just really cool. And that whole Paleo race, and I was like, that's that race. And they're like, yeah. So I go back. The races are July 2nd.So I go back to Sienna on the 27th, and we filmed the Paleo and we film Citizen, a couple wineries, and then have a steak quarantine. And so being able to put those ideas and document them and film them, and so it's been really fun. Yeah. James Bond, the best.And even it was another Part of my life too, where like for the first time in a long time, I was like, I need to check out. Let's check out. I remember somebody said, I want my James Bond. What do you mean? I'm going to St. Thomas.

Arnold00:33:13

Yeah.

Andre'00:33:14

My beard is long. I haven't shaved. Probably smells like a heaven shower.

Arnold00:33:19

Nobody knows I'm here.

Andre'00:33:20

Yeah. And I'm drinking beer and I'm just hanging out. And even it was like three days. I just remember when he retired, like, what happened? So it's just.I don't know. I don't know. Those movies inspired me in a lot of different ways and. But I do love a good. A Bond villain. Yeah.

Arnold00:33:33

I really appreciate your time.

Andre'00:33:35

Anytime.

Arnold00:33:37

It's All About Wine with Andre Mac.

Andre'00:33:40

Yeah. I don't know what that means. Do we talk about wine that much?

Arnold00:33:44

I read this. You said, like when you're drinking wine, you have it with your food or you might have it as a something where you have friends alongside or reading.

Andre'00:33:54

A book or listening to.

Arnold00:33:55

But you said it's a condiment to life.

Andre'00:33:57

Correct.

Arnold00:33:58

And explain that again. How is it a condiment?

Andre'00:34:00

It's a condiment life. Because wine is supposed to make all the things that you do in life just a little bit better. It's a condiment to food.Wine belongs on your table next to your salt and pepper shaker, not a replacement for a floral piece. It's not something that a centerpiece that you're supposed to worship. It's not food.Wine is food, but it's not this thing that you're supposed to worship. It belongs to any 200 next to salt and pepper shaker. And so it's not only a condiment to food, but a condiment to life.Supposed to make that book that you're reading better. Conversations with friends, better parents with all of those things. And I find that wine is a placeholder of time. That's what my book was about.99 Bottles is about. When I think about this wine, I think about this experience. Yes.You go on holidays, you have Portugal, you have a three year old bottle of wine on the beach, sunset. And you're like, this is the best wine I ever had. And then you go find it. You find it and it tastes like.Well, it doesn't taste, but it's because it encompasses all of that.

Arnold00:34:56

That's correct.

Andre'00:34:56

And that's what I think wine is. And the title of that book was 99 bottles. A black Sheep's Guide to Changing Wines. Life. Changing wines mean my life.Not that if you drink these wines, it'll change yours. It's to inspire people to say, what are your 99 bottles? What wines that can tell a great story. 85 Reas. Or would you say reas in general?That's the first service that we did at Per Se in the restaurant caught on fire. That's what I think about. I think about Pellegrino was like the straw that broke the camel's back. It was because we never served that water.We had a bad supply system for water. We run out of water, we go downstairs to Whole Foods and buy that water.And I'm just coming back for the first time where I felt I could leave the restaurant. And I'm in line on security line in Seattle, heading back to New York, and my boss calls me and he likes me up for having this water.And I was like, this is the stupidest thing ever. And when I came back, I quit, you know, and so it's all of those things for me.I grew up on hip hop and punk rock and skateboarding, but hip hop in general was a. Probably one of the only genres of music that. That's aspirational in that way. It tells you what to drink.It tells you what clothes to buy when you have money, car tires. Also what type of woman to be attracted to. You know what I mean? It's like, what? And when you come from like that.What I was drinking was influenced by popular culture. I'm like, now I'm 21. I can drink in a bar. And I'm like, I don't know what to drink.And I was like, you know, there's a movie called Tequila Sunrise, but I think it's a drink, too. Hey, bartender, I'll take a seat. I'm watching Goodfellas. They're drinking Cutty and soda.Yeah, but I would say I'm saying Cutty Shark, because that's what I think they say. And my homeboy's laughing at me. He goes, it's a sark, not a shark. I'm like, what? I'm just cutting shark. It's a sark. It's a ship. Bring me the bottle.I was so embarrassed, but that was it. A lot of my influence of what I drank came from popular culture, music, movies, and those things.And then later, it kind of evolved into something else. And so those bottles. And that's what I think wine is. It is a condiment to life in the way that it's supposed to complement all of that.And that's what I think about marketing and why Wine doesn't have a marketing problem, has a relevancy problem, is because culture is the new marketing. And so the wine should be 20%. Think about it. There's a lizard that sells you car insurance.There's nothing about it that says car insurance, but it's successful. Think about a Coca Cola commercial. They say nothing about the attributes of what it is.And the other part is, how many times have you seen a factory inside the factory? So in wine, what do we want to show? We want to show the vineyard, and we want to show inside the winery. Yeah, but Coca Cola doesn't do that.Show it where people enjoy it should be 20% in the background. Like I always say, wine sets the mood in the tone, and then it's everything else. And that's what I tell people.That's what you should be talking about, telling your story. And also what resonates with you. The people who buy your wine, what do they do? What are the activities they like to do?Actually, you can put on a survey, but more importantly, what do you like? Do you like to go hiking? Go on hikes? Show hiking, show those things, incorporate those things?It seems very simple to me, but I think traditionally, everybody's put in this box of what it should be. And it's like, we've seen vendors before. We've seen all that talk about, what do you do with that wine? Right.What are you doing, what activities you doing with that wine? And then also, how are you enjoying it?

Arnold00:38:20

Makes you happy when you have it.

Andre'00:38:21

Correct. So being at a concert, maybe playing music or like, whatever. Like playing music and sit around the.

Arnold00:38:27

Porch on a great day in the spring.

Andre'00:38:29

Correct. Whittling a piece of wood. Well, teaching your kid how to do it. Give him his first pocket knife, whatever that is.And I think that's hard for some people to do. And I think that's what's different in my show, its function.Show people in ways that they should be enjoying it and how to enjoy it and what it means. And I think that speaks of authenticity and generally what you want it to be.

Arnold00:38:50

So thanks, Andre.

Andre'00:38:51

You're welcome.

Mark00:38:53

How fun is he?

Arnold00:38:54

What an infectious personality. He is a tremendous guy, and I'm grateful for the time that he gave.

Mark00:39:00

And you're sitting there with microphones and going back and forth.

Andre'00:39:04

Right.

Arnold00:39:04

We're just sitting in two armchairs and it was a great time. He is very knowledgeable is one thing, but he's very inspirational. He's been through a lot. He knows I'm just continuing to learn.I'M continuing to move forward. I've accomplished this. I want to do more with my life. I don't want to stay in this. I want to say a rut. He doesn't want to stay in that path.He wants to forge some new paths and he just goes ahead and he blazes them away.

Mark00:39:28

I was reading a little bit about him that he was in the financial industry originally.

Arnold00:39:33

Yes.

Mark00:39:33

Then he wanted to get into what he's doing now. And so he transitioned into the restaurant industry.

Arnold00:39:39

Yes.

Mark00:39:39

So he went from being a financial industry advisor to a dishwasher.

Arnold00:39:45

Right.

Mark00:39:46

That's quite a. That's quite a leap of faith.

Arnold00:39:48

And when he started his wine experience, from the time he started, 18 months later, he's a sommelier at the French Laundry. And that crazy in California, that is unbelievable.

Mark00:39:59

That's where you do something you love and have passion for.

Arnold00:40:03

And he worked hard at it.He worked hard and he made some great points in everything about evaluating wine, about making wine, about marketing wine, reading about wine, honing your palate, how to use it at the table, all of those things. And I think one of the comments that really sticks is to be a master means to forever be a student.

Mark00:40:23

Wow.

Arnold00:40:23

And he is a master of all these things. He just learned them and applied himself to do it. And boom, there it is.Designed the labels that go on the bottles, you know, designed his own wine key.

Mark00:40:34

Wow, that's fantastic.

Arnold00:40:35

His wines are very good, too. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. And I was very fortunate to have some time with him.The first time I met him, we talked informally for about three, four minutes and that turned into about eight to 10 minutes. And then when he came back into town and was able to have some extended time with him.

Mark00:40:53

He certainly has a passion for wine making.

Arnold00:40:56

He really does. And he has a real passion for helping people move in their life towards the things that they find enjoyable and that they want to excel at.

Mark00:41:07

Yeah. Great dad advice.

Arnold00:41:09

Wonderful dad advice. Wonderful dad advice.

Mark00:41:12

Really enjoyable interview.

Arnold00:41:14

So, folks, we want to leave it there and want to thank you for listening to this conversation we had with Andre Mack. If you've enjoyed this episode, you can listen to additional shows at STLN where you can follow us and leave a review.I want to thank Bob Bertha Self for our theme music, our sponsor, Better Rate Mortgage, our guests Andre Mack and co host Mark Langston. And we thank you for being a part of our community of curious minds. St. Louis in tune is a production of Motif Media Group and the US Radio network.Remember, to keep seeking, keep learning, walk worthy and let your light shine. For St. Louis in tune. I'm Arnold Stricker.

Andre'00:41:56

Ram. Sam.